Talk:Soy Milk

This item is about as bad as chocolate milk is good. It reduces whatever your current damage is regardless of how strong your tears are to about .2 normal tear strength, and LOCKS it there for the rest of the game regardless of how many damage ups you pick up. Only pick this up if you have incredible synergy with other items (something like moon + technology 1 + soy milk would give you practically a force field).

-- Can anecdotally confirm unchanging damage, I picked up both The Pact and the Pentagram from a Devil Room after picking up soy milk with no noticeable damage increase.

Third. Pentagram and juice. No visual, stat, or damage change. 75.69.69.87 09:17, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

I just picked it up with Samson. Damage does increase if you get hit, although it takes quite a damage increases to realize that because the *0.2 multiplier lowers it so much. Also, a pretty good carrier of effect tears, like freezing or especially fire. Kind of a worse Tech 2 with different synergies. Would pick it up early or with effect synergy, but it's one of the items that can destroy a run if picked up later.

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I just picked it up with Eve and it increased tears, but range and damage were also set to maximum. So I had an enormous firepower then. So there seems to be an enormous synergy either with any of the items I collected.

--- This synergy is a Libra zodiac sign, it able to fix downsides of various items (for example giving ipecac and dr. fetus fast rate of fire). Without it soy milk will ruin almost everything.

DPS changes
The wiki says that at 10 tear delay Soy Milk will provide a very small dps up but I believe it's actually dps neutral (10x firerate and 1/10x damage). In addition, maybe add that Soy Milk increases dps at 11 or 12 tear delay and decreases it for anything higher? I'm not sure if the game rounds your tear delay down to 1 if you pick up Soy Milk with 13-14 tear delay, but above 14 it definitely decreases dps because tear delay will be set to at least 2.
 * You have some confusion about the tear delay formula: Isaac fires 30/(tear_delay+1) tears per second, which means base DPS is ~9.54 and neutral soy milk DPS is 10.5. The difference is slightly above 5x at 0.2x damage, not 10x at 0.1x damage. That also puts it neutral at 14 tear delay: 30/15*3.5 = 7, 30/3 * 0.7 = 7. --Frionil (talk) 17:10, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Edit: Ah, I thought Isaac fired 15/(tear_delay) tears per second. That explains why the damage mod for Soy Milk is 0.2x instead of 0.1x. Thanks for the explanation
 * At 14 tear delay, wouldn't Soy Milk do 30/2.5 * 0.7 = 8.4 dps? I think 30/3 * 0.7 = 7 is at 16 tear delay. If this graph I made is correct, it seems Soy Milk does more dps between 10 and 23 tear delay with optimal increase at 12 (being neutral at 9 and 24). That might be worth putting on the page or maybe it's too specific idk. https://www.desmos.com/calculator/104xkoeqyh
 * There are no non-integer values of tear delay: if your tear delay is 14 and get soy milk, you go to 2 tear delay. I'm not sure if I understood the graph correctly (and it's not limited to just integer steps anyway), but from just plain testing what soy milk puts you at with different tear delay values and applying the formula... in short, it's not linearly better, but general gist is "soy lowers dps if you have below 9 tear delay, is neutral at 9, and is (marginally) better otherwise".
 * 1-13 + soy = 1 (9 td normal damage is neutral with 1 td soy milk both having 10.5 dps; 1-8 is loss of damage, 10-13 is gain)
 * 14-17 + soy = 2 (14 td normal = 2 td soy milk, anything else is gain)
 * 18-21 + soy = 3 (19 td = 3 td soy, 18 loss, 20-21 gain)
 * 22- + soy = 4+ (24 td = 4 td soy, 22-23 loss)
 * And no, I don't think going into this much detail either in the soy milk page or the tears stat page is worthwhile, since there are also many other factors that can muddle the calculation, and Repentance will probably change it up anyway. --Frionil (talk) 19:41, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I didn't take the rounding into account. The graph should be correct now.